a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.
two days ago, i received a response from them.
i think this is gonna be the first of many.
Hi Finkelstein,
Rutherford turned the organisation upside down during the 1920s, almost causing it to totally collapse. This included dropping the "Palestine Hope" and the Pyramidology. You will know about 1925. He invented the term "Jehovah's witnesses" in the early 1930s applying it only to the Elect.
Doug
a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.
two days ago, i received a response from them.
i think this is gonna be the first of many.
I have been asked by Scholar to vouch for him.
We have enjoyed several friendly Skype sessions and I have found him to be firmly convince in his ideas. He is well read and as he has indicated, has undertaken formal studies in related subjects.
We have agreements on some things while disagreeing on others.
He appears to be firmly fixed and convinced with his position but I have no understanding of his background to know the reasons for his stubbornness. I accept that Scholar believes he operates with integrity and that he is honest to himself.
I find his contributions useful, inasmuch as they enable others to see the weakness of the WTS's typical arguments.
The real person who needs to be the focus of interest has the initials RF (and these are not Scholar's initials).
Doug
a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.
two days ago, i received a response from them.
i think this is gonna be the first of many.
CTR taught that the Parousia had taken place in 1874. He said there would be a 40 year Time of Trouble, which would end in 1914 with the Kingdom of God on earth under the Zionist Jews. That's why he called his magazine "Zion's Watch Tower" and "the Herald of Christ's presence" (meaning 1874). At one stage, Russell expected his church to be glorified to heaven in 1910, in preparation or the incoming Zionist rule.
Rutherford hung onto the 1874 Parousia until about 1930.
They used dates such as 538 BCE for Babylon's Fall, changing it to 539 only after Rutherford's death, with Parker and Dubberstein providing the detailed dates for the period in question, including the 539 BCE date. Since P&D is correct for 539, their other dates, which might be out by only one day, the WTS is very selective in what it accepted.
Doug
a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.
two days ago, i received a response from them.
i think this is gonna be the first of many.
Scholar,
537?
How can that date be proven?
Doug
a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.
two days ago, i received a response from them.
i think this is gonna be the first of many.
The Mother of Nabonidus: On two stelae found in Harran, one in 1906 and one as recently as 1956, we have what appears, stylistically, as a tomb inscription of the mother of Nabonidus. …
I am Adad-guppi', the mother of Nabonidus, king of Babylon, a devotee of Sin, Ningal, Nusku and Sadarnunna, my gods, with whom (lit.: with whose godhead) I always, even since my childhood, took refuge, I who-(even) in the 16th year of Nabopolassar, king of Babylon, when Sin, the king of all gods, became angry with his city (i.e., Harran) and his temple, and went up to heaven and the city and the people in it became desolate. …
From the 20th year of Ashurbanipal, king of Assyria, when I was born, until the 42nd year of Ashurbanipal, the 3rd year of his son Ashur-etil-ili, the 21st year of Nabopolassar, the 43rd year of Nebuchadnezzar, the 2nd year of Awel-Merodach, the 4th year of Neriglissar, during (all) these 95 years in which I visited the temple of the great godhead of Sin, the king of all the gods in heaven and in the nether world, he looked with favor upon my pious good works and listened to my prayers, accepted my vows. …
I have obeyed with all my heart and have done my duty (as a subject) during the 21 years in which Nabopolassar, the king of Babylon, the 43 years in which Nebuchadnezzar, the son of Nabopolassar, and the four years in which Neriglissar, the king of Babylon, exercised their kingship, (altogether) 68 years ; I have made Nabonidus, the son whom I bore, serve Nebuchadnezzar, son of Nabopolassar, and Neriglissar, king of Babylon, and he performed his duty for them day and night by doing always what was their pleasure . He also made me a good name before them and they gave me an elevated position as if I were their real daughter. …
(Postscript :) She died a natural death in the 9th year of Nabonidus, king of Babylon . Nabonidus, king of Babylon, the son whom she bore.
Ancient Near Eastern
Texts Relating to the Old Testament (Third Edition), pages 560, 561, James B. Pritchard (editor), Princeton
University Press (1969)
i am preparing a critique that looks at the 51 instances the wts's brochure "the origin of life" uses scientists.. without preempting what i am looking for, i will appreciate your thoughts on the following endnotes: 7, 12, 17, 21, 23.. i need you to read what the brochure's author wrote and then compare that with the source.. thanks,.
doug.
I am preparing a Critique that looks at the 51 instances the WTS's brochure "The Origin of Life" uses scientists.
Without preempting what I am looking for, I will appreciate your thoughts on the following Endnotes: 7, 12, 17, 21, 23.
I need you to read what the brochure's author wrote and then compare that with the source.
Thanks,
Doug
a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.
two days ago, i received a response from them.
i think this is gonna be the first of many.
Borg Off,
I will take a close look at key points in their letter.
I spent some time looking for the text of the Adad Guppi stele (also: Adda Guppi stele / stelae) as reported by Gadd in Anatolian Studies in 1958. I do have the original text "somewhere" but maybe you or someone can dig it up.
These are two identical tablets written about that time and it provides the chronology.
I will come back to you tomorrow (it's late Sat night and bitterly cold - snowing nearby) and I will check out key points in their letter. Always feel free to email me.
Regards,
Doug
a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.
two days ago, i received a response from them.
i think this is gonna be the first of many.
OK Scholar,
Show me:
(1) Where the Bible says the moment when the 70 years ended.
(2) How to guarantee the exiles returned in 537. (Google with 536 BCE -- then with 536 BC -- then with 538 BCE -- and then with 538 BC).
(3) Who says that 539 (or 538) is a "pivotal" date? (Google with pivotal date or with pivotal dates).
Edwin was correct -- and I have personal letters from him - that no dates can be obtained from the Bible in BCE format.
When Jeremiah declared the 70 years it was made against several nations. If they obeyed, they could remain in their land and serve out their servitude to Babylon. Jeremiah told Zedekiah there was no need for Jerusalem to fall. All that was required was to accede to the subjugation.
Thank you for your comments as these are making it clearer for others who are reading this Thread.
I say it is absolutely impossible for the Judahites to exile into Egypt a bare two months after Jerusalem's destruction, following Gedaliah's murder.
https://jwstudies.com/Did_Jews_exit_after_two_months.pdf
All the best,
Doug
the following is not a criticism of the wts.
i am providing this for technical clarification and my expectation for accuracy.. endnotes 43 and 45 on page 27 of the wts’s brochure, “the origin of life” refer to the new scientist periodical of 30 may 2009.. the text in the wts’s brochure does not match the text of the new scientist’s online article.
further investigation shows that the online text does not accurately replicate the text that appeared in print in the physical magazine.
The following is not a criticism of the WTS. I am providing this for technical clarification and my expectation for accuracy.
Endnotes 43 and 45 on page 27 of the WTS’s brochure, “The Origin of Life” refer to the New Scientist periodical of 30 May 2009.
The text in the WTS’s brochure does not match the text of the New Scientist’s online article. Further investigation shows that the online text does not accurately replicate the text that appeared in print in the physical magazine. The WTS’s brochure matches the print version of New Scientist.
In an email response dated 9 August 2019, New Scientist advised me:
------
“Thank you for your observation, which has been passed to me. As an increasing proportion of publications do, we put news and comment articles online as soon as they are ready. We then cut them to fit the space available in print. Sometimes, as in the case you highlight, this involves rewriting, often to make the text denser and perhaps crisper - and always to fit a rectangular page.”
------
So I asked Professor Beard, writer of the item in question, about the amendments to his text and the addition of artwork. In an email of 10 August 2019, Professor Beard responded:
------
“My recollection is that both the online and print versions of my original piece were edited by the staff at New Scientist. The prose in the online version is closer to what I originally wrote, but even that version was edited. I think they were trying to emphasize the PR aspects of the episode in the print version of the magazine. The cladogram shown in the online version was produced by New Scientist and not by me. It has some serious problems, notably including the omission of tarsiers and showing ‘Ida’ and other adapiforms as being nested within lorises and lemurs rather than being outside the crown clade, as they should be.”
------
Email me if you want to see the direct comparison of the online and print version of Professor Beard's opinion piece in the New Scientist.
Professor Beard referred me to a contemporary 2009 article of his that appeared in “The American Scientist, Volume 97, September-October 2009, pages 410-413. It is available online at: https://www.americanscientist.org/article/the-weakest-link
I hope that online text accurately reflects the print version. I have not checked.
Doug
a month ago i sent a letter to the us branch about 607. my purpose for sending it was because i wanted to show to my parents through the letters the truth behind the date system.
two days ago, i received a response from them.
i think this is gonna be the first of many.
Hi Scholar,
It's been a while since we chatted.
No chronologist says that 539 BCE is an Absolute Date. If it were an Absolute Date, why did Russell and Rutherford use 538 BCE? When and why did the WTS change?
There is NO universal agreement on the date when the first of the Exiles returned. Dates range from 538 to 535 BCE.
The Bible writers do not say that the Exile's Return marked the end of a 70-year period. 2 Chronicles 36, written 200 years later, mentions the 70 years in terms of Cyrus defeating Babylon (see verses 20 and 22). Jeremiah spoke only of several nations serving Babylon for 70 years, not just Judah, and the nations served Babylon while remaining in their own land. Jeremiah told the people they had to continue living in Babylon because their 70 years had yet to continue running its course.
Even though Jeremiah decreed 70 years of servitude to Babylon, he pleaded with the king to accept the situation, so that Jerusalem did not need to be destroyed.
We must not impose 21st century mathematical attitudes upon their ancient cultural attitudes. The number 70 had a cultural meaning.
You are one of the few people who knows that the WTS does not start their "70 years" with Jerusalem's destruction.
As I wrote, I am genuinely pleased to "see" you again.
Doug
